Sequoia

HUFT’s Journey: Making the World a Better Place, One Pet at a Time

What started with a founder’s love for her dog is now a brand that's a go-to for many pet parents in India. Rashi Narang, Founder & CEO of Heads Up For Tails (HUFT), chats with Sakshi Chopra, Managing Director, Peak XV, about what it takes to build a business in an industry that didn’t exist. This session was recorded during Spark 02 in February 2023. In this conversation, Rashi dives into the importance of authenticity, creating categories, and building products that are ahead of their time. She also talks about authenticity, the art of building resilience as a founder, and finding the right partners to work with.

SHOW NOTES

TRANSCRIPT

Sakshi: Let me actually tell you what HUFT really stands for. The full name is Heads Up For Tails. And to probably just give you a perspective on how large the business is, it’s a destination platform for all things pet [related], whether you think of products or services. It’s a business that is now almost 10 years+, right?

Rashi: Yes, 15, going to be 15 soon. 

Sakshi: So, it started out of Rashi’s deep desire to make this world a better place because she believes pets teach you how to love and care. HUFT accomplished $15 million last financial year, and they will roughly double this year. And because it’s been a brand that has been around for so long, it has really got the trust and love of most households who own a pet, especially in the cities that they’re predominantly present in. And hence, based on that love and trust of pet parents, they’ve been able to almost get to 40% revenue contribution from their private label brands, and that’s huge. We normally don’t see that.

A critical design choice, which they made in the early days of their startup journey was that they don’t only want to launch a product. They want to… They basically want to be a retailer of all things pet, and hence, they chose to be a retailer versus a pet care brand alone, a single brand alone. And they started their humble journey through one outlet in New Delhi in Select Citywalk (mall). But having said that, today’s chat is more about Rashi’s journey as a founder, some of the early day challenges, and design choices she made. 

So let’s dive a little more into Rashi’s story. But maybe let me tell you a little about Rashi as a founder. She is someone who probably has the perfect EQ (emotional quotient) and IQ balance. She’s smart. She’s hugely ambitious. She’s very driven. She’s massively resilient. She will do it even when the world doesn’t support and believe in her cause. And most importantly, something which literally touched my heart the first time I met her was that she’s someone who really cares. She cares about the purpose that she’s building for, she cares about her employees. She cares hugely about her customers – not just for pet parents, but for that little pet in the home. I’ve seen this quality emerge when Rashi is going through tough days, and when she’s going through good days, she never stops caring. 

So Rashi, just with that, I’m going to ask, I’m just going to sort of kick off the discussion. Talk about what sparked that burning desire for you to start up. And there are so many things that can go wrong, but what allowed you to trump all those fears and yet get into this business when no one really believed in what you were trying to do?

Transforming your love and passion into a business [02:50]

Rashi: Okay, I’ll go all the way back. And, I was thinking about it on my way here and I feel extremely grateful that I have been able to combine two things that I absolutely love the most in the world. One is pets and animals in general, and the second is actually, I’ve always been an entrepreneur, ever since I was little. I always had these little side businesses when I was six or seven or eight, whether it was a library and renting books to my friends, or building cards and going door-to-door to sell them, again, maybe to raise money for an animal charity, etc. But just to be able to combine those two things is what really brings me alive and just makes me so happy. And you all know the back story. It was… I have always grown up with pets in my home. But it was this one special puppy named Sara, who I was the parent for versus being the child in the house. And I got her right after I got married. And she literally just changed the course of my life because I couldn’t find what I wanted for her. And I started building. 

I did not, I didn’t really think that, “Okay, I’m building to make this into a gazillion-dollar business, or anything else.” I just literally thought that I wanted to build for her. And then when I started to build for her, I said, “Okay, I want to build for more people, and more pets, and really build products that are going to make their lives more comfortable, healthier, and just make them happier and bring more joy to them and their families.” So it was very small, very humble. No big dreams at that time, literally just solving that one problem that I saw in front of me. 

Seeing every challenge as an opportunity [04:36]

Sakshi: Talk about the early days. Like, what were the biggest challenges that you saw? Talk about some of the hurdles, and what was the mindset. Like, how did you approach all those problems, especially in the early days. 

Rashi: Honestly, I don’t think I saw any of them as a problem. I was just excited to see that I could solve a problem and actually, there was just a white space, and there was no one to learn from, no suppliers, no product to look at or understand or no paths to follow. But I don’t think I saw any of them as hurdles. I actually was just greatly excited to go and solve this problem for Sara. Now, when I look back, I’m like, “Oh my god, I didn’t know anything about what I was building. I had no background, no work experience that was relevant, no one to really go and learn anything from, no one to hire who had done this before. Now, I can make a whole list of problems. And, then I’m like, “But I didn’t see it as a problem then, and why should I see it as a problem now?” But yes, all of those things were true. And I think, you know, what I do remember more than all of these things was, the noise outside, which was a lot of people’s reactions, you know. They were like, “My God, you’ve just finished your masters. What are you doing?” I could see the scorn, and the sarcasm, and the disappointment sometimes, “What are you doing with your life? Like, why aren’t you in a great well-paying job, where you’re supposed to be.” I think that noise, I remember, but other than that, I think I just didn’t see, I didn’t see any hurdles as hurdles. I was just so excited to go out there. 

Sakshi: That’s the growth mindset. You see opportunity in every problem.

Rashi: Yeah, I wasn’t thinking. I was just like, “Okay let’s do this. Let’s build this,” and I think there will always be noise, there still is, and I think it’s so important to just tune inward and listen to your quiet little voice that always speaks very softly, so you have to really hear it, but it tells you the right things and the right way to go.

Making design choices driven by customer feedback [06:56]

Sakshi: Awesome. And obviously, there was… You were the early mover in this market and category. And hence you could have made, you could have intersected this market in many different ways. You could have approached this opportunity in many different ways. Talk about what those critical design choices you made, whether it came to brand distribution or product, how did you go about making those design choices? Because in the early days, there are so many things you can attack, but talk about what were the few things you focused on in the early parts of when you were fixing, and when you were crystallizing the business model.

Rashi: Okay, I think I started out with a couple of products that I wanted for Sara. I was very excited when I built them after feedback from friends, and customers—I mean not customers then—but friends and family. It was things like bedding, and a few toys, and some treats, and just healthy, clean stuff that I wasn’t able to find. And, I hadn’t been able to find any of this in pet stores, so I was excited to take this to pet stores. But when I did, and I went to more than 200 in the country, I was shown the door by all of them. All of them said, “This is not going to work. Who are you? You can’t just come in here. Please leave.” Lots of things like that. And I think that, that rejection, while it was very terrible at that time, and very demotivating with all the enthusiasm that I was carrying on the side, I think it just pushed us to try different avenues. 

And so I started going to pop-up events, and anywhere that I got a chance to be in front of the customers, just to get their reaction. And get real feedback from real people. Because I knew that, something was not fitting in. If as a pet parent, I was excited about the products, and I wanted it, and I had seen reactions of friends and family, then why were these people reacting so differently? And so I took it to audiences that I thought may give me more depth or clarity on ‘why’. And there the response was completely different. There was a lot of excitement and a lot of questions. And just going in front of the end customer gave me so much feedback. And without knowing we were really practicing a design-thinking approach, going into conversations, emotions, problems, getting lots of feedback or people saying, “Okay, can you build this?” Or, “Hey my dog has long ears, the ears go into the bowl every time they eat,” or, “My dog is growing old, I can see this and that…” Lots of different things. I think just being there and getting lots of these inputs to say, “Okay, my puppy is chewing all over my hand, or has rashes from particular shampoos that I’m using, or [my puppy] does not have any toys to play with, or is getting very destructive…,” feedback like that made us realize that there was a lot to build out, of course, which we started building for, but it also made us realize that people wanted one place that they wanted to go to for all of these things. They didn’t want to come to one place to buy maybe just a toy, and then a second place to buy a bowl, and a third place to go for a pet grooming brand.

Becoming a category creator to fulfill the customers’ needs [10:23] 

They just wanted a one-stop-shop solution, and they wanted it not just for the product, but they also wanted advice. Like the number of questions that were coming to us: How do we do this? And how do we cut our dog’s nails? And what do we do…? 

So it was a lot of that advice, and product, and support in so many other ways that made us feel that we have to build for a much wider assortment than just building these few products that came much more naturally or that we were personally trying to solve for. 

And so we decided to set up our own stores versus going and distributing in others. We decided to build different categories, whether it was nutrition, whether it was lifestyle, which includes toys or accessories or clothing or bedding or things like that. And grooming as well, so your shampoos and conditioners and all of those things. And so, it was a lot of learning, a lot of research, a lot of development, a lot of just trying to figure it out because no one was really doing it in the country. So we realized about the depth and the width of product assortment, the one-stop-shop, our own network of stores which was actually forced because no one wanted to keep our stuff. But now when I look back, I’m like, “Oh, thank God, we’ve built out a pretty solid distribution network of our own, which we can control, where we can control the experience, where we have direct access to customers, which we wouldn’t have had if that had actually gone through.” And yes, that’s how we… It was really a lot of input-based [approach] and really where the market was shaping us versus us saying, “Okay, we will build a particular brand, launch these particular products, use a distribution strategy.” It just didn’t play out like that. 

Sakshi: And, you chose from the product strategy [point of view], to launch pet accessories over pet food, which is a larger part of the market. So it’s a very non-intuitive choice you made. Talk about why. 

Rashi: I think pet food… I used to feed Sara homemade food. So I, it was my story, and I was like, “But I’m not buying the food from outside anyway.” And that has grown over the years, and that’s something that we’re trying to build for now, but at that time it just didn’t come to me intuitively because I wasn’t a user of that product, and 15 years ago, pet food, you know… even now, pet food is hardly 3% or 4%… it has 3% or 4% penetration as compared to more advanced countries where everybody feeds their pets, pet food, which is more species-specific etc. And so, I was literally just trying to solve for, “Okay. What, can I not find? What is it that I don’t have?” But we did start solving for treats early on because when I went to find treats, they were full of ingredients, and they still are that I can’t even pronounce. Like, all these long chemical names, which I was like, “What is this? And what is it that’s going into my dog’s tummy?” And we started solving for treats quite early on, and then so much more, along the way. 

Sakshi: Yeah, also I guess, like accessories the treats market was largely unbranded and that’s where you guys also saw an opportunity to build a brand.

Rashi: Yeah, absolutely.

Grooming the pet-grooming market to expand & scale up [13:50]

Sakshi: And talk a little about the decision to expand into services. Like, why do you think services are such a big part of your business? Why is it critical to your success? And how do you go about delighting customers who walk into your stores just to buy a single product? How do you keep them coming; how do you keep the customers coming back every weekend after weekend?

Rashi: Okay, [with] services also [it was a] similar [thing as pet toys]. It started with just going to a few grooming salons and just being like, “Oh my god, they were disgusting.” I was like, “There is no way my dog is going to be bathed over here.” And also I realized that the people doing the work were just not skilled. And it’s still the same. They would just pick up your dog and muzzle your dog and dump them in the tub and bathe them. And, pets are traumatized. They are not used to something like that at all. And so again, it was an exciting but very difficult opportunity to build in a much better way. This was, I think, the hardest part because we couldn’t… There were no groomers whom you could really hire who already existed. So we’ve had to build that whole team from scratch and continue to do so as we expand training them, not just on the basics of grooming, but also understanding dog body language. How do you communicate with them? What are they saying? What are the stress signals? How do you calm them down? We don’t allow them to use muzzles. So we were like, “You’re going to get bitten if you don’t know how to really communicate with the dog.” And you get big dogs, and you get aggressive dogs, and you get all kinds of dogs. So they really need to know their stuff. 

And I think we just wanted to… We’re just solving for pets first, not anything more than that. Just really keeping them at the heart and center of everything and saying, “Okay, it’s already very scary for a wild animal to come and have their nails clipped and their bodies washed and heads dried up,” etc. So, how do we make this a happy, calming experience? How do we teach our people, train our people? And, also just for the customers, we’ve been trying to build our retail team to become people who help instead of sell. How do you help them make the right choices? Someone may come in and say, “Can I get a choke collar?” It’s one of the most popular products in the country. Every pet store has it, but it literally chokes your dog. Every time your dog is excited, pulls on the leash, goes and sniffs the squirrel, it chokes them and it can break a bone. You wouldn’t even know. And then a dog may be eating their food, it must be really hurting, they’ve got a fracture in there. And if they swallow, and maybe you’re around, or a child is around, irritating them, and they may growl, and that’s it. The pet’s family would be like, “Oh my god, this dog is aggressive. It needs to be tied up.” I mean, can you see how misunderstood these animals can be… And so it’s really about training our people to understand and help and advice and help people make the right choices. 

So, instead of a choke collar, “Maybe we can share with you how to walk your dog on a leash? How do you do that correctly?” or alternative, safe, comfortable choices that are not going to… You may still love your dog, but you’re just not thinking that something like that is actually going to be so harmful. And there are so many products out there that are… Our regular pet shops are full of those products. And so [we are] really just trying to help, one person at a time, one family at a time to make a difference to one pet at a time, with better choices, better products, which are well-thought through.

Living your mission and vision day in day out [17:41] 

Sakshi: Talk about your ‘why’. Was this… When you go back in time, when you were crafting your story around HUFT, why it exists, why it will win, why it’s differentiated versus others in the market, did this all come very naturally, or did you actually have to put mind to thought before you stood in front of your first set of customers, whether you pitched your first set of investors? Like, talk about the whole crafting of the storyline.

Rashi: I think that for the first few years. I was just lost in building [the company] and the story was what was unfolding in front of me. So I was like, “Okay, I’m trying to solve this. I’m trying to make better products. It’s all about Sara.” And it was very natural and it wasn’t crafted till much later when I said, “Okay, the story exists, but we have to document it and we have to share it in a compelling way.” And, that’s when we got around to really writing out our mission and vision. So it came a little bit later. The mission was very easy to write. It’s really what we do. And it was very simple. It was, “We create and curate innovative products and services to bring joy to pets and their families one home at a time.” But there were lots of words that we were obsessed with. Like, “Okay, we have to bring joy. It has to be innovative. [It has to] be one family at a time.” Helping them make those better decisions, etc. I think the vision, which is really that big, that bigger dream more than what you just do on an everyday basis, came a little bit later. And it came because I started to hear a thousand stories, literally. So many years I spent on the floor talking to customers, and I started to see every time somebody had walked into my store, who had gotten a new pet, they were like, “We’re changed people. Like, we have become different people. They have just suddenly got so much joy into our life.” And I started to see and hear these stories of people just saying that they’ve become nicer people, kinder people, better people. And I think that the vision then came from that, to say — pets make us better people.

It’s not just pets, but just for our context, sharing our homes, lives, and spaces with animals in general just opens our hearts. It makes us kinder, more compassionate, and more empathetic, and it makes us better. And then, I think, we started to feel like, okay, we can actually bring this magic into thousands and millions of homes, and through that enable more people to become better versions of themselves, and in turn leave the world a little bit better than we found it. So it was a process and it’s something that we really live. It’s not just a mission and vision on paper or a poster in the office. We go back to it every time we are happy, sad, lost, confused, anxious, any decision that needs to be made: Why are we here? Why do we do what we do? And it’s really that guiding North Star that gives you a very definitive direction. 

Let authenticity rule your brand’s story [20:57] 

Sakshi: What do you think are the two, three key elements of a great story? What should founders definitely touch upon in their story?

Rashi: I think there’s just one really, and I think that it’s authenticity. Because if you’re honest and if you’re feeling what you’re feeling, it stays with people. It’s real. You don’t have to worry about how it sounds and whatever else, because it’s just so authentically yours. It can never be anyone else’s. And it’s not about what a competitor can copy. It’s not about what anyone else can do. So I think really… But it does need a little bit of soul-searching; it does need a little bit of standing or just being silent and still and really asking yourself, “How are you impacting people?” You’re creating jobs, you’re changing lives, you’re taking out a new product into the world. And yes, of course, it’s for economic benefit, but there’s also so much more that can come with it. And it just needs you to really go deeper and say, “Okay, what is it? And how do I do it?” Because I think after we crafted out the vision, much more than the mission, there’s just a different sense of purpose. It’s just different than saying, you know… It’s just at a much, much bigger level than what we do. 

Sakshi: The brand is going to survive beyond the founders; it’s hopefully a transgenerational business that they’re building. So now that you had your purpose cast in stone, you knew exactly what to do. How did you create awareness? Like, how did you get to the first set of customers to walk into your stores? Talk about the early days of how you conceptualized and thought about brand building.

Rashi: We did not have… We didn’t have much of a customer [base], a ready customer, pet care was not really a concept. So it was about building that customer along with the market, and the product, and the distribution, etc. But I think we just started to use the power of social media, just the power of digital, which is so powerful. It was fairly new at that time, a lot of these platforms. And so we just started to authentically share what we’re doing and why we’re doing it. And, be out there at these pop-up events and more before we even got our first store. You can do… Now there are so many different platforms. Of course, online platforms, but also offline in the sense that we hired kiosks and short-term pop-up stores, which could be for one or two or three months and you can get so much feedback before you are like, you’re going all in to build a massive infrastructure and long leases and deposits, etc. But there are so many spaces where you can meet your customers. So really thinking about where they are and, “How do I go to them face-to-face to get that feedback and have conversations in person?” 

And then, of course, leverage all that you can from the whole digital ecosphere to reach as many people as you can. You know, you put out a post and it reaches thousands of people. That’s so powerful. Nothing high-stake, but just the whole… Leveraging the massive advantage that startups have of failing fast. If you try something that doesn’t work, move on. There are no months of approvals and business plans and processes. I think just leverage that as best as you can and try everything, and this works and this doesn’t work.

Hiring for unconventional job roles [24:32]

Sakshi: Of course, you started out as a solo founder. So she started this by herself. But along the way, your life partner joined you in the business. So Sam [Samarth Narang], her husband, is [one of] her co-founders today. And the business started to grow and flourish, but beyond us, at some point, you needed to hire your first set of mid to senior level employees. Talk about like, how did you get the first 10 employees in your company? What was the pitch you made to them? Where did you go looking for them?

Rashi: So Sam joined much later, a couple of years ago, but, I think, those first few hires were very tough because people were like, “The pet industry doesn’t really exist. What will my prospects be after this when I have the whole world, I have so many options?” And we still have that at the retail level at the grooming level, when people are like, “I can go into electronics, I can go into fashion, like why pets?” They have a hard time explaining it to their families at home. So it’s still very hard. 

And even when we have a corporate office and we have a thousand people, we still have to clarify many times that you’re not sitting in a pet shop and working. There is more than that. So, we have had a massive struggle around that, but I think we were… What we really appealed to people was that [we wanted] people who wanted to make a difference, who feel the same way as we do, and they’re just passionate.

So the first few people weren’t necessarily subject-matter experts. Also, I started with no money, literally. So I couldn’t even hire anyone who was really a subject-matter expert. It was just young people who wanted to make a difference and were willing to do the hustle. And I’m so grateful for all of them because we went quite a long way without someone really solid, with massive work experience, coming on board. And, then I think as we’ve slowly grown and built up that middle management. It was, of course, about being competitive in terms of salary and great work environment, a good team and a good culture. But more than anything, I know people have come to us for the cause. So I think that purpose does go a long way in building and attracting the right people. 

Sakshi: Do you think your story and your pitch, as you now hire more seasoned and experienced professionals into the company, has changed?

Rashi: Not the mission, not the vision, not the purpose. Maybe the things around it that, “Okay, we’re at so much scale and this is what, you know, the revenue growth is and the number of stores, and ambition.” Ambition is also always very big but we’ve been able to prove it maybe, and so there’s some validation that, “Okay, we’re on a particular path,” but the heart of it still stays very much the same.

Sakshi: Yeah, no, absolutely. And talk about, you know, being a founder is super lonely, right? You’re lucky to have Sam with you on this journey. But, who’s been your biggest mentor, and support system along the way, especially during the really tough times, because everyone comes to cheer you up when you are doing well. 

Rashi: Honestly, it’s my dogs, they inspire me every day when I’m like, “Why am I doing this?” I have them to remind me, and they just make you smile no matter how tough life is. So yes, I have to say they really are my inspiration every single day. They wake me up and I’m like, “Okay, yes, I know, I’m going to work for you.”

Sakshi: How amazing. How amazing. And we wouldn’t have thought of a different answer, right?

Rashi: It’s the honest one. But yes, there are so many people to get inspired from and learn from. But that constant for me is just them. 

Sakshi: How lovely is that! You know, this industry is still young. And there’s obviously not been too much startup capital that has poured into the pet industry until more recently. So, how did you pitch…how did you find your first set of investors, your first set of angels and your pre-series A? 

Rashi: That was exciting, actually, because “investors” was such a scary word for so long. I started this as a home-based business out of love, and I wasn’t really thinking of that journey. And I think that for us, we always wanted to build a very strong, sustainable, enduring business that’s going to last a long, long time. And I think that whoever has been on this journey with us as investors at any point they are people who believe in what we’re trying to build out. And so, it hasn’t been outbound as yet. It has always been inbound interest. And I remember when the angels, even when it was just references through people, through our friends network, etc, they were just people who came because of the cause. 

I think really everybody who has invested is people who believe in us, or in the cause, or are just passionate about the [pet care] space, or see an opportunity. So I think that if you’re just… If you’re going to build something and really put your heart and soul in it, and really build for putting the best out there, people will hopefully understand that and come and support you in different ways. Yes, it hasn’t been… We haven’t yet gone out and pitched outwardly, so that’s been nice.

Sakshi: You’re blessed. 

Rashi: I totally am. 

Raising funds is responsibility plus commitment [30:32]

Sakshi: But you’ve raised seed, you’ve raised pre-series A, and then you’ve raised series A from Sequoia and Verlinvest. Which one was the hardest? 

Rashi: Let’s say the compliances are the tough part. It’s not the investors, it’s just the process. Which I think is also extremely rigorous and it makes you think, and it makes you cut your data into a zillion ways to really see, what’s working, what’s not. So while it makes you work very, very, very hard and you have many, many, many sleepless nights, it gives you so much back in return. But it’s just different things at different times. When it was the angels, it was like, “Oh my God, we have somebody else’s money,” which is a big responsibility, you still don’t mind messing up with your own money, but messing up with somebody else’s money is just, it’s just not acceptable. So there’s a different kind of pressure and a different kind of responsibility that you have to care for this in different ways and you have to make this work. And you’re also just answerable to more people than yourself, which again brings in a lot of rigor, and brings in just deeper thought processes. “How are we building this? How are we scaling this? How are we going to provide the returns? How are we going to really make this worth their while? The people who have put in their faith and money and time and all of that into this.

So I think, and then at a series A, building from 10 to 20 is easier than building from 100 to 200. How are we going to do that? That may have worked, but now what do we do for this? And it’s just different things at different stages, but it’s all really part of the fun, and part of the journey, and part of the challenge, and all of it grows you in so many different ways.

Sakshi: No, absolutely. But like when you have such a diverse and large board, and it’s only getting bigger as the company scales and grows, investors will also point very quickly to what’s not working. How does it feel? Like, you think it’s going well, you’re trying your best. The business is doing well, but here are a set of folks who are also telling you what’s not working. Talk about how you internalize feedback? How do you put it back into action? 

Rashi: So I think that it’s amazing to get that feedback. Someone who is looking at the business from a different lens and saying, “Hey, red flag here,” or “Okay, this is maybe not going well.” There may be reasons why that’s happening. And it’s always been very open, honest conversations to say, “This is why we’re doing this, or this is why we’re okay with something there or not, something here,” but it’s just nice to know that everybody is looking at different things so that nothing is… You’re not waking up one day and saying, “Oh my god, I had no idea.”

And sometimes it pinches in the moment and that’s fine. You take it back and say, “Okay, push – now, what do we do to really get this going?” Or maybe, “We haven’t been paying enough attention here, our focus was there. This is dropping.” Really like, how do you keep all those balls juggling? And sometimes you need that push. And sometimes you need that nudge to say, “Focus here. This is not going so well.” So I think we really appreciate it. And we’re grateful that there are so many people keeping a watch closely. 

Sakshi: And what’s your advice to founders here on how to choose and select their investors? Because this is such a critical decision, right? These relationships will span over eight to 10, maybe 15 years. How do they make sure that they choose the right partners? Any advice to them on that front? 

Rashi: Yes, I have a personal story to share over here. One of the first angels that we were going to partner with, it was my first conversation, I was very excited, had lots of meetings, and then something started to feel…not right.

And I remember he gave us a million-dollar check. And at that time, it was just not feeling right at all. And I got up and I said, “With all due respect I’m not going to be able to go forward.” And I know for sure that if I had taken that money that day, we would not yet be here. He wanted to change everything about the business. 

So I think that just [having] the right partner is very important. And I’ve seen so many of my friends as founders, partnering with the wrong people, and now just having to shut down because it’s just, it’s really like a marriage that has to last a long time. 

And three questions: who are you partnering with? Do your value systems match? Why are you partnering? I know fundraising is the most obvious answer, but do you know exactly why you need to raise funds? Why do you need to raise funds? There are lots of businesses that don’t raise funds. They go a very long way. They do really well. And when? There was… We bootstrapped for eight years and even during those eight years, there were many opportunities, but I knew it wasn’t the right time. And it’s a hard, uphill climb and you need to be able to really give it your 1000% and you need to be ready for it. And are you ready? And at that phase in your life, when you can give that 1000%. So these three things, who, why, and when, are very important.

Keeping the customer at the center of it all [36:14]

Sakshi: So now just shifting a little bit of gears. Tell us what keeps you up at night? What do you worry most about the business? 

Rashi: There’s something new every day, but I feel…it never stops. But I think that when you put time and focus on solving a problem, you do solve it. And then move on to the next thing, and then the next thing, and then the next thing so I think it’s a forever thing. But yes, that’s how [it is], one day at a time, really. Sometimes you’re thinking about the future, “Oh my God, I’m dying when I’m at this scale, what will happen when we’re there? How would we build for it? How do we solve it?” So a little bit of that. And then a little bit of, “Okay, today, what do we need to do now? Or like tomorrow? What needs to happen?” So it’s just one day at a time. 

Sakshi: And tell us like, zoom 10 years from now. If HUFT no longer exists, and it’s failed as a business, what would be those one or two reasons why it failed? What would you have done so horribly wrong that the business is not around? 

Rashi: Just, I think not keeping the customer at the center of it all. You know, if we are just continuously solving for the customer, and their evolving and changing needs, I think we’ll be fine. I think, if you just don’t adapt and are not agile enough and quick enough… I know it’s very easy to blame the outside and say, “Oh, it was the environment. It was laws. It was…” It could be all of those things. But still I think that mostly we all have a lot of power to say, “We can do this better, solve for our customers, really keep them at the heart of it all, understand them, spend time with them, and stay close to them,” and I think we’ll be fine. So hopefully we’ll be here for many hundreds and thousands of years.

Sakshi: Customer front and center of all that you do. No, awesome. Thank you for that. And talk about when you look back, any near-death experience, any crucible, what was the most crucible moment over the last… Let’s maybe reflect on the last five years.

Rashi: I think COVID was hard, because all our retail stores closed, and we were a retail-first business. And that’s when we really shifted our focus to building online. It was there, but it was not really there. So that was definitely hard. And what do we do now? Like, how do we manage this? But I think that we came out much stronger and learned a lot. Very happy that whatever, and however hard it was, it taught us, it grew us, it shaped us. So now we have a very strong online business too. So I think when you look back, you can join the dots and say, “Okay, it was for the good, however hard it may have seemed then.”

Sakshi: I think, maybe just double click on that. They probably were so agile during COVID because the business would have gone to zero. Think about it, like all stores shut for close to two years. They very quickly pivoted. They always had an online platform. They very quickly pivoted to pushing the online channel. And now that’s almost roughly 40% of the business, and that just shows agility and resilience. And, maybe tell us, if you had to restart – there’s always wisdom of hindsight, right – so, if you had to restart HUFT again today, would you do anything different? 

Rashi: I think not because, I think the first few years were very hard, but they taught me so much, and I did everything, and learnt every aspect of the business. You won’t believe it, but I did all the accounts, and all the finances – I’m not that person, Sakshi knows – all the compliances, all the filing, all the GST, everything, right? Before we had any help and larger teams. I knew how to run a store. I knew everything about all aspects of the business. And I worked literally, 16 to 18 hours literally, from the time I woke up, till I couldn’t do it anymore, for years. But it didn’t feel like that. It was just, I can do it now as well. I just have this burning ambition. Every day I wake up with like fire in my belly, “Today, I have to do this!” and the 1% improvement list never ends. Like it’s just hundreds of things that always need to be improved, no matter how many times you’ve done them before.

So I think I’m very grateful for it all. I wish I had more expertise at an earlier stage, but then probably I wouldn’t have… I wouldn’t know the business like I do because I did everything. But yeah, that would have made it a little bit easier probably. 

The art of evolving and letting go as a founder [41:03] 

Sakshi: No, 100%, absolutely. Tell us,  how does the role of a founder evolve as the business grows? Because when you’re doing everything alone by yourself you’re doing it to perfection, right? It’s matching your passion, your vision. But as the company is growing, you’ve got now 60-plus stores. They’re not being run by you. They’re being run by other folks. They’re being managed by other people. Decisions are now more decentralized. So you’re not necessarily front and center of all that HUFT does. How has your role evolved?

Rashi: I found that journey very hard. Just when you know you can… And you will all face it. Even when somebody comes to help you, take things off your plate, you’re like, “Can I just do it myself? Because I know what I need to do.” And I’ll have to anyway sit with that person and explain it to them. And then it’ll be 30% of what I really want to be done, and so let me just do it myself. It’s just so easy to do that. And it takes a lot of conscious letting go and knowing that, “Look, it can’t be exactly the way that you want it.”

If you start at 30%, and you can reach up to 70%, that is great. And that realization, it’s not easy to accept because you have a certain vision. And then, you have to keep building, and keep building to say, “Okay, now 71%, now 72%, now 73%,” and slowly move that number up. But it’s very hard for a founder, because this is just your baby and you want to do it in a particular way and you have this vision and no one else can feel it the way you can. And it is a painful journey. I have to tell you that it hurts. You’re like, “That’s really not what I had in mind. But okay, let’s give feedback, and then let’s start again.” But… So yeah, it’s very tempting to say, “Nevermind, I’ll just do it,” but you know, how do you build more leaders? And how do you build more people to really understand where you want to go? And it takes time, and a lot of time that you have to spend with people to bring them. And it takes years to grow those people within the company. 

Sakshi: I’ve been watching you grow as a leader over the last many months of association. But I think while her first love is product and brand, but I’ve seen how now she spends more of her time on hiring the right set of people, making sure that the org and the culture is still humming, and they’re still living the day-to-day promise that she had dreamt of 15 years back. So talk about how when you make senior hires, what’s that cultural fit you’re looking for? What’s the kind of person you want in your organization?

Rashi: For me, it’s very simple. Low ego, high EQ (emotional quotient). Low ego, because I feel that if you come with a low ego, you’re open to learning, you’re open to new ways, you’re open to feedback, you’re open to doing things that you haven’t done before, and high EQ, just because of the space that we’re in, if you’re not feeling it, you can’t really produce magic. At least for my senior leadership team, they have to feel the purpose and the cause very deeply.

And of course there’s a long list along with that, you know, innovators, or execution capabilities, or domain expertise, or all of those things, but really what I’m solving for is just these two things, because anything can be learnt if you’re open to it. And if you have that desire to make a difference, and feel the purpose, and you have the ability to lead from your heart, not just your mind, then you will thrive within HUFT. So just those two things are on the top of my list, in big and bold [font].

Sakshi: Awesome, awesome. No, thank you for lending that clarity. And last question from my side, top two, three pieces of advice for our founders today.

Rashi: Wow. Okay. Just to make it very short, I think that, how far you go in the first few years and then even beyond, but the first few years, is just critically dependent on you. And so, how much resilience can you build? How much can you take care of yourself mentally? How can you massively protect your hopes and your dreams, because there will be – not there may be – there will be a thousand things that will come your way to drop you down every single day, obstacles, hurdles, people’s opinions, noises, and how are you going to protect these ambitions and dreams of putting out something amazing into the world from all of that, how are you going to build your resilience?

It’s so very important. So really just take care of yourself. If you’re burnt out, I know when I’ve been burnt out, there’ve been so many times when I’m like, “Okay, I’m quitting. Now that’s it, I can’t do this anymore. Fifteen years, every single day, no more,” but I know that when you feel like quitting, it’s actually just time to rest. And that’s what you must do. So, don’t quit when you need to rest and just take care of yourself. If you fall down seven times, have the resilience to get up eight times. And that needs to be, that needs to happen through a lot of inner work. It needs to happen by just spending time with yourself. It needs to happen by defining and knowing and feeling that strong purpose. And then the second is really just learn every day. Learn from everybody that you can, no matter how senior, how junior. There’s so much that everybody has to share and take the time out consciously for everyday learning, whether it’s maybe commute time or maybe part of your morning routine, just be amazing at what you do, just be a master of your craft. And whatever it is that you’re building, just build the absolute best version of it.

Sakshi: You know, talking about giving time to yourself, on her 40th birthday, she took a 30-day solo trip from J&K (Jammu & Kashmir) to Kanyakumari. That is, for folks outside of India, the [journey] from the northest point of India to the southernmost point of India. And her husband kept trying to tell her, “Count me in!” and she’s like, “No, you take care of the kiddo and the doggy.”

Rashi: Yeah, that was very special. It already feels like it was a lifetime ago – it was like three months ago, but yeah, back to the grind. 

Sakshi: Don’t worry, 50 is the next milestone. You’ll do it again.

Rashi: No, that’s awesome. Thank you so much. 

Sakshi: That’s all from me, but let’s open the floor for questions. 

Audience: This is maybe very specific to what I am building, but you said right in the beginning that when you tried to introduce your products into the market, retailers were not… Whereas the end-customers, you knew for a fact that they wanted it. But there’s this layer in the middle, which kind of… So I’m trying to build something which will get new brands into the retail stores. And that’s something that I also feel a pinch of. There is this one layer in the middle, which has almost no clue of what the other two layers are talking about. But… So that’s something like, how do you, what learnings did you get from that phase? And I know you went another way, like with your exclusive brand outlets and stuff, and that worked very well. But like, what can I do? And then somebody was mentioning that the products are also available in the other retail stores now. So like, what learning should I take from that, or anybody who’s putting their brands in the market?

Rashi: I think it’s about… The retailers have very limited shelf space and I think they want to stock it very mindfully with stuff that is going to go. So, they want to see and feel a little bit of a demand for those products. So I think, building a little bit of that noise online, offline, whatever it is that you do, because I have a lot of friends who work on this whole strategy of retail and distribution. And I know that they have done a lot of things to build out that demand where people are actually coming and asking for their products and then those stores are like, “Okay, yes.” 

So sometimes you have to just… And of course it’s a chicken and egg story because if the products are there, then people will be tempted to try them. But one of my friends was like, “I actually went to a chemist 35 times and said, “XYZ brand hai?” [Do you have XYZ brand?], “XYZ brand hai?” [do you have XYZ brand?].” And then, I said, “Wow, that’s awesome.” And then that chemist was like, “Haan, rakhna chahiye [Yes, I think we should stock this brand]. So yeah, I think just think of it from their perspective. They just want something that they know, that’s tried and tested, it’s going to sell. There is a demand, so can you work backwards and work around that? Like just something to show the customer demand. 

When you are ahead of the market just stay put [50:24]

Audience: Yeah. Thanks a lot, Rashi, for your time. It was amazing hearing you. So my question is that a lot of times I have seen that what I am imagining or the vision that I have is just so different from whatever is available, not just in our country, but across the world. It’s very difficult to convey that it’s necessary, and that it’s possible. And, sometimes I just feel that there’s such a huge gap. So I am building a marketplace for new age parents. But with such a large monopoly being in place, in India, and no such large examples being there globally, it’s just super difficult to convey what’s there in your mind. And I’m sure that when you would have started it was very similar for you.

Rashi: Yeah, absolutely. 

Audience: How did you take care of that and how do you do this?

Rashi: I still feel like we’re way ahead of the market and people don’t even understand a lot of what we’re building. It is very far ahead – five, seven, 10 years ahead – but I think that you have to persevere till the market catches up, and it will. Because there is… You do start with that small community of customers who get it. Today if I wanna buy something for my daughter, I’m trying to parent as best as I can, as consciously as I can. I want better products than what is just out there. And you need that first set of people who will be believers, who will spread the word and as things change, and they take a long time.

It’s just about how long you can stay in the game when you’re ahead of time for the market to catch up. And when it does, it will just suddenly be amazing. 

So yeah, there’s no right answer. But that’s how we just… I knew for the longest time, people were like, “What are you making?” They were all like, “India-first products, never heard of before.” So that’s why we also went offline versus online because no one is searching for these products. And so it took a very long time for it to catch up. But it has now, but it’s still got a long way to go. I think we just have to be very stubborn and be like, “I’m going to do it because I know I want to do this, and however long it takes, we’re going to make it…”

Prioritizing yourself and learning to say no [52:40] 

Audience: I have a very personal question. I was watching the video previously, and you started with talking about how important it was to get praise from people. And it took you a while to be able to say “no”. And I just wanted to understand how you got from where you were to then being able to say “no” to a lot of things. 

Rashi: Yes, I’m still learning. I grew up like a normal Indian girl who is taught to make people happy, take care of your family, put everybody’s needs first, all of that. And then I realized that to be as resilient as you need to be on this journey, and to really take care of yourself, you can’t stretch yourself so much that you’re going to break.

I really felt like that – [having a] child, joint family, expectations, hundreds of things that come by – all the roles that we play… And I think that it took a little while, and some understanding, and confidence, and courage to come out and start to say, “No I can’t. I can’t do it.” But yet, not making people feel like you don’t give, you don’t care, but to say genuinely that, “I have to be able to pick from what I can do in 24 hours.” And, I don’t want to… Now I’m a lot more brazen about it, but I’m like, “Okay, I only have this much time. I do not want to spend it doing anything that I don’t want to.” No social commitments that I don’t want to show up for, nothing. Like, I’m extremely particular about where I’m spending my time and how I’m doing it, but it’s not easy to. It took me a really long time to unlearn that and to get comfortable with how someone is feeling about how I… And the fact that I said, “No, I can’t be there.”

And it’s not about… A lot of it is for the extended, extended circle where you have to show up just because… But sometimes it’s also, you know, how do you keep your family and friends feeling that you really care – because you do – but you are stretched, and maybe the priorities are different for a few years. I have a young child, I come back to her in the evening, I want to do that versus be somewhere else, and not everybody understands that. But yes, I think it’s just a process and the more you do it, the more comfortable you’ll get and the better you’ll get at explaining without offending, but it’s a journey. I hope that helps. 

Audience: Thanks, Rashi. Thank you for your very inspiring story sharing today. So, I just have a quick question regarding hiring. Even though right now I’m building a startup based in Singapore and we are in the AI space, we just started in 2022. Our team is just like six to seven people. I noticed sometimes I hire the wrong person, even though the team is quite small, I need to fire him. So I wonder when you just started, when a team is not like, right now it must be hundreds of people [for you]. But when your team is small, every person counts. It’s very important. And did you also make the wrong hiring decisions? When did you notice that this person is wrong? And what did you do?

Rashi: Yes, absolutely. I mean, we still make hiring mistakes. And, I know that when you’re just a few people working very closely together, it’s just so very important. But this answer of telling you low ego, high EQ, it has come after learning and getting knocked down many times, and getting a lot of wrong systems, a lot of wrong people into the system, to learn what is it that we need, and what is it that does not work.

I think all of us in this team here will resonate that it’s just a part of the journey. And what is very important is to learn from every person that [if it] is working or not working. What is it that’s working and what is it that’s not, so that you can start building [with] more clarity. And then, asking questions based on those things that you want to hire for. So, whatever it is, whether it’s, of course, the functional domain expertise is important, but in your culture, what is, what are those values? And then what are the questions that you’re asking around those values to determine if that person is a good culture fit or not. And then, again, I found it very hard to let go of people, even though I feel like, “Okay, let’s give him a little more time, or let’s give another chance, or let me give better feedback, or let me just try longer.”

But I’ve realized when you know, you know. And the best thing that you can do for that person and yourself is to just be honest. And take time to hire, but fire very swiftly when you know that person is not the right person. It’s difficult, I know, and sometimes it needs practice, but you have all of these amazing founders and everyone will be feeling the same way, but it’d be great if you just try and practice those conversations before you have them.

I think that helps because you will feel terrible about it and you feel like it’s your fault. And, so many things, but just you will get better at it. But yes, it’s important not to have them in the system.

Audience: Thanks.

Rashi: Most welcome.

Sakshi: Super. Thank you. Thank you, Rashi.

Rashi: Thank you so much.

Sakshi: This was such an interesting chat. Actually, I enjoyed it and learned so much too.

Rashi: Thank you for having me here.

This transcript has been edited for clarity.